Wise Not Withered

Hello, Happy New Year! And welcome to the Wise Not Withered podcast. We are on Season 4, and this is episode number 11. Today’s guest is Helen W. I found her on Instagram. Her username is 50_over_and_beautiful. And I really loved the vibe of her profile, just so colorful, she looks so happy. Lots of modeling, clothes and food and drinks, and all kinds of different places that she has traveled to. There’s a lot of different performances where she has sung. And she talks about all of those things in our interview. She is truly a citizen of the world. She grew up… And actually, I’ll let her tell you where she grew up and where she has lived all throughout her life. It’s pretty interesting, pretty unique. In addition to all the places where she has lived and visited, she talks about her pretty complex job, and also the intricate family dynamics, of her upbringing with her family of origin, and her dynamic with her son currently. And she also talks about just her experience being an older woman in today’s society… What that means, how she’s been treated by other women, especially—older and younger, and a pretty interesting work-life balance that she has maintained for a pretty long time. So without further ado, here is Helen!

All right, so what is your age?

I just turned 60!

Oh, you just turned 60! When was that?

I turned 60 in September. I think before turning 60, you have this fear, like, “Oh my god… Another decade.” And people regard you as “old”. You think of retirement, yeah… But yeah, I was thinking, because at 60, you get this “Joy Card” in Hong Kong. And then you get like discounts for transportation.

Ohh okay!

Anywhere you go, you’ll be paying 2 Hong Kong dollars. Which means everybody will know that you’re 60. And I was thinking, before I got the card, “Oh, would I actually use it? I’ll use it when I’m alone… If I’m with people, would I use it? Cause then everybody would know I’m 60.” Then when I got it, it’s like… What the heck! Just use it! I mean, I’m entitled to this! (Laughs) This discount to travel, because I’ve actually lived on Earth for 60 years, and contributed, and yeah! I should be proud!

Amazing! I love that!! And what did you call it? Just a discount card? Or did it have a special name?

It’s called a Joy Card!

A Joy Card!

Which is is nice name, isn’t it?

Right!

It’s a nice name, right? Yeah.

I love that!!

Be happy! In your senior age. Yeah.

That is so cool!

Yeah.

Let’s see, so you live in Hong Kong right now. Did you grow up there? Where else have you lived?

Okay. Yeah… I’m quite multi-national, in terms of where I’ve lived. So I was born in Japan. My parents are from China. But I was born in Japan, Tokyo. So I’m Chinese, born in Japan. Okay then, I did not actually do schooling in Japan, cause the family moved. I moved with my mother to Macao. And then from Macao… My parents divorced, so we were living there with my mom—me and my brother, in Macao. And then she found someone and remarried—an Australian Chinese. So we all moved to Sydney.

Oh, wow!

So in my teens, I actually moved to Australia, and grew up in Sydney. Did my education there, did my university there. Then after a few years, I married a Malaysian Chinese. And we moved to Singapore. And then the relationship didn’t really work out, so my child was born in Singapore as well. So we divorced. And then the boss that I was working for, he was a Hong Kong Chinese, and he announced he was moving to Hong Kong, so would you like to come and work for me in Hong Kong? He just got a position, so he invited me if I was looking for something. So I said yeah okay, I’ll come along with you. So that’s how I ended up and stayed in Hong Kong.

Okay. Interesting, wow! So you’ve just been all around the world!

Yeah, yeah. And then in one year, the company got bought over, so he lost his job, as well as I… He was the CEO, and I was the assistant to the CEO. They want to change, and of course the new CEO wants their old assistant! (Laughs) And then I decided… I just brought my child all the way from Singapore to Hong Kong, what should I do… Trying to look for work in Hong Kong, so I just stayed in Hong Kong. And then for one year, I actually went to Switzerland to work, in Basel. Yeah. Then I went to Hong Kong again.

Wow, interesting! Have you ever been to North or South America?

North America, yes. South… I’ve been to Brazil. US, yes. New York, California—San Francisco. Dallas… Hawaii…

Yeah! Have you been to Africa?

Not yet.

Almost every continent!

Asian countries, I’ve been to Japan, Korea, Thailand, Vietnam, China of course… And then Europe: France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Austria. Yeah. Slovakia. So more Europe, a bit of America, and Asia. So I haven’t explored Africa yet. I guess you reminded me, I have to go there!

Yeah! Wow! Oh my gosh, so many follow-up questions. What is your work? What do you do?

I’ve been working in the freight forwarding industry for more than 20 years now.

Okay, and say that again? What is it?

Freight forwarding. You know, air freight. Freight train.

Ohh freight forwarding! Oh okay.

Yeah, in the logistics industry. I used to work for a Swiss company, and I actually worked for their regional office space in Hong Kong, for their Asian regional office. And then there was an opening in the head office, so that’s why I went to work in Basel for a year. Yes.

Okay.

When I was working in Basel. My mother… My step-father, her second husband, passed away unfortunately. She went to a nursing home, and she wasn’t happy. So I wanted to relocate. I wanted to move back to Asia, because you can easily get a helper who lives with you, and who can actually look after an elderly person. We have what you call foreign domestic helpers. They’re from the Philippines, Indonesia, and they actually live with you and take care of your family for you. And the cost is very reasonable. So that’s why I told the company I wanted to go back to Asia, because my mom is not happy in the nursing home in Australia, her English isn’t good, too foreign for her… At that point in time, the company didn’t really have a position for me back in Hong Kong. So they said I could relocate but they’d have to look for a position.

Then a competitor came, approached me at that time, and said they had a position for me. I said I was interested, but asked if they had a position in Asia for me? I asked if they were recruiting only in Switzerland, or worldwide? And they said they actually are looking for a position in Asia, so I interviewed for that position. So that’s how I moved back!

Another forwarder, with a regional office back in Asia, in Hong Kong. I moved back, and went to Sydney just to do all the paperwork for her to come here… Yeah… (Laughs)

Wow!

My position, current position is an operational excellence director.

Okay.

Okay. So basically, I have to make sure the operations run smoothly, we don’t get customer complaints. I don’t bring work home. Cause a lot of people ask, “Helen, why don’t you work from home?” I like to have a very clear, delineation between work and personal life.

Yeah, that’s great.

I actually go to work, and I’m like 100% or 120% into work. What should I do today? What are the priorities? And just focus on that. And then, when I leave, I really leave. Mentally and physically leave.

Yeah, good, good.

So that’s why… I think you actually got in touch with me through IG. So okay, off work… I play the ukulele sometimes, I like to sing karaoke.

Oh! Nice!

I actually, I love TV and I watch a lot of TV. Netflix, local TV stations, Disney+… Because the broadband service provider just decided that they would give me this free Disney+ channel, so I’ve been watching more TV! (Laughs)

(Laughs) So fun!

And I love shopping! I love technology, but the worst thing about it for me is… Now they have online shopping. Even when I take a break from work, and I can actually spend money! (Laughs) I have shoes delivered to my office. So even if you don’t have time for shopping, you can actually shop. It’s good for the economy, good for the luggage industry cause they have to send all these parcels everywhere, but definitely not good for my wallet! (Laughs)

(Laughs) Yeah! Oh my gosh. How fun. Yeah, I guess you mentioned Instagram. Did you make your Instagram within the last ten years? It’s like “Over 50 and Beautiful.” Or did you change your username?

Okay, yeah. Now I actually had a personal IG account for a long time. My personal IG account is probably over 10 years, I cannot remember exactly. Maybe 10-15 years. This “Over 50 and Beautiful”, I decided… I did it only a few years ago, okay. One day I was so bored, and it was raining, and I thought, “What should I do?” It’s just boring! Okay, I’ll just create a new profile! All my social media accounts are private—only my friends can see. This is my only public profile.

I decided okay, I’m just wondering if I randomly do this IG account… And at the time, I was in my 50’s. And I say okay, if I just do this, what people will actually go and follow me? So it was a curiosity! And I deliberately did not tell my friends about this account, to see how many strangers will actually follow me and look at my account?

Yeah!

Of course, over time, some friends followed me as well. But that’s like… I think on that account, I don’t really promote it that much. I have maybe 700 followers? Maybe only 10 or 20 are actually my friends. I don’t promote it within my own network. Cause I really wanted just to see! It’s just a random IG account, of some old woman! Who will look at this account!? Yeah! And this is how I started!

Yeah! Okay. Yeah, that’s… I love that. And I mean, here we are! I am one of those strangers that was like, “Oh this is kinda cool!”

Yeah! So it’s so interesting… Okay, so of course, what kind of people will actually follow me? I actually wanted more women to follow me, but then I have more men following me. I have to look at strategies… Okay. I’m so busy! I talk about maybe how to dress, how to look better, thinner, taller, Asian… How do you actually look not so small and tiny? How to have a bigger presence, although we are actually physically small, right?

Yeah.

If I do that, give me consistency and time, then I guess… Given my crazy schedule Monday through Friday, I just want to relax! And the other reason I wanted to start this IG account is also because… A lot, not all, but some, I think, Asian, older women… They really think it’s not appropriate to dress, do this, it’s not appropriate to do that. And I want to change that!

Yeah!

So, what if I actually just wear a bikini and take pictures around the pool? Why is that… Okay, why do I have to stop that? If I like to do that, I can do that!

Right. Yeah, love it.

At various points of my life, I remember… It must be over 10 years ago, probably 15 years ago. I was on a business trip with some of my colleagues. After work, I think it was in Malaysia, we went to the shopping center, just to walk around, and do some shopping. And I started buying some socks. And then, I think she’s from China, probably around the same age as I am, and she said, “Oh, I thought you had a son!” Cause she was thinking I was buying socks for my kid.

Yeah. (Laughs)

It was like pink and Hello Kitty. Why are you buying that for your son? She was thinking that. I look at her and said, “I’m actually buying them for myself.”

(Laughs) Yes!!

These are cute, aren’t they? (Laughs) And she said, “Oh. Okay.” Yeah… So one day, there was another incident, I was in Stanley, in Hong Kong. There’s a beach there. It was with my previous company, where we had a dragon boat team. So we’re there to check in before the race. We had to go there for practice, right. And I hear some… A younger, Hong Kong lady… She was commenting on some older ladies who were in swim wear… “Oh my god, at HER age! Why is she wearing that?”

No…

So, I guess… At different points of life, you just hear people just saying things. And I think the saddest thing, for me, is when I hear women saying such things to other women.

Right… Yeah. Hm.

Yeah. I also remember I was actually in the subway station in Hong Kong, just queueing to use the ATM to get some cash out. And there was a younger lady, I didn’t know she was queueing. And then she just went in front of me. I said, “Hey, I’m queueing here.” And she says, “Auntie, you were standing so far away! How will I know you’re actually queueing!?” In a very… “Old auntie, old woman.”

Yikes…

Yeah… I just let her go ahead. I’m not going to argue with people who are just… How long does it take, just a few minutes to go to the ATM.

Right.

So yeah… I think that gets me thinking about like, how young—some young women actually look at older women. Do they think they’re going to be their age as well?

Yeah.

Okay, sometimes I can understand men. I just want this beautiful, young woman. Not all men are like that, but… A big percentage are. Not that I agree with that. But I can still understand why. But for women, to say that to women, because… You’re going to be old, too!

Yeah!

Yeah. And that for me… I really feel that I look quite good for my age! And sometimes, I say, if you think I’m old, I’m 60, I shouldn’t wear this, I shouldn’t do this… Can you ever imagine how you are? When you are 60? Will you still have normal blood pressure, normal weight? Do you already have high blood pressure, overweight? Or are you actually going for the trap of cosmetic surgery? Artificially keep yourself young?

Right… Yeah.

Yeah, so I guess this is really why you know, I started this. Be proud of your age and just do what you like!

Yeah. I love that. That is really sad… I mean, a lot of my posts I say #WomenSupportingWomen. You know, it’s so sad when we’re not. Yeah.

Mhm. Cause I think… Yeah, I mean… There’s always age discrimination. Mhm. And… I think it was the present company, for two years. When I joined the company I was already 58. Senior already, okay. When I lost my previous job because of the company being taken over. Yeah, I actually do have difficulty finding another job. Too senior… Okay. It’s not easy to find at an older age. I think it’s the same for men and women. I think Hong Kong is still a very youth-oriented society.

Okay.

So… Yeah, cause there’s actually a show now. It’s on local TV. It’s a singing contest, but only for people in middle-age!

Oh, really!

So you have to be… They define that age as 35.

Wow!!

That’s young!!

Yeah! Oh my gosh, I was thinking like 50, or…

Of course! So I had one younger team colleague, and he told me… In the previous episode, there was a guy who’s like 70. He said, “It’s not fair! This is supposed to be for middle age! He is old age!” I said to him, “Actually, we’re talking about people living to be 100, or 120, in terms of life span. So middle-age should be 60!” That’s what we’re looking at nowadays! So many people living until 100. So you start at 50 for middle age! Middle!? That’s what middle means! (Laughs)

(Laughs) Right! Dang!

I don’t know how that middle went to 35! (Laughs) Most people live way, way beyond 70! And I guess he just shut up.

Yeah, good. (Laughs)

(Laughs)

Wow. What’s the name of that show?

The show… Okay. I have to look it up. I know the Chinese name! But I’m sure they have an English name. I cannot remember. It’s like… Good Voice, Middle Age.

That’s the rough translation.

Yes.

Okay. Cool! Let’s see… Yeah, just switching gears a little bit. Do you ever see yourself retiring?

Retiring. Ah, okay! Okay… I want to actually work til 70, cause I think I have enough energy, health, and mentally, I should be able to work for another ten years! Yeah, so I guess… I have to look at what kind of work there is available. I do actually want to, maybe in two years, go for something more relaxing. Because my current job is a bit too crazy!

Yeah. (Laughs)

You know, something that is more relaxing. Or maybe work part-time, instead of working full time. Maybe do some remote jobs. Okay, I guess I need to divide my house into like, this is my little work area. And only do work in that area, so that I have room to work, and then private life.

Your work-life balance… Has it always been like that? Or did you hit a point where it was like… Was there a point you hit where you decided to do that, or has it always been like that?

Okay. I think my current job is the busiest job I’ve had. Okay. Yeah, I look after like four different parts, right. But in my previous jobs, for example, I’m only responsible for the system, training, and roll-out, but not the quality side. Or, I will only be looking after the quality side, and maybe a little bit of the key account side when there is a quality issue with the key account management. But not directly responsible for the key accounts. So I think this job is most challenging because… In my different roles in the last training, it actually combined all into one. Yeah… So sometimes I really feel like, this is too much! In a way, it’s more interesting, because you get to do different things at the same time, but it does actually wear you out! And I’ve only been in this current role for two months. Previously, I would still look after all these things, but only for the Northeast Asia region, but not the whole Asia region. But now, I’m actually doing the whole Asia region. So that’s another challenge. But luckily, I have very good team members who are also very committed. So yeah… Actually, in Hong Kong, generally, there’s not a very good work-life balance, and a lot of people actually work late.

Yeah! So when did you start to do that, really separate… Like not bring your work home?

I think… Apart from during Covid, or if it’s a call with US, like at midnight, other than that, I never actually bring work home.

Okay.

I’ve always had that… I think it actually started when I was at university. So I’ll attend class, my lectures, and then I will actually do my work in the library. And then when I finish, I go home.

Okay, so it’s been a lifestyle for many years.

Yeah, okay. Apart from high school, I started at university. And then I remember… You know, you do different subjects at university, right? I would actually occupy two or three desks. Okay, now I’m doing this subject, so I sit here, and I concentrate on this one and not think about something else because I’m physically sitting here and doing this. And then I’ll have a break, and then I go to another desk. Okay, now I’m doing this! So I cannot think of the other one because I physically moved.

Yeah! Oh, I love that.

Yeah, so this is how I work. Even now… They didn’t give me several desks in the office, so what I do is like… I’m concentrating on India, I’m doing India, okay. So I do this. And then, I finish India, I’ll actually go to the pantry. Have a coffee, or just walk around. Then okay, what is my next topic now?

Okay. Yeah. Cool. I love that.

Yeah! (Laughs)

Nice! Speaking about challenges, what are some of the biggest challenges you’ve faced?

I think raising a child. I’m a single mom. Because I did quite well in school, I think I didn’t understand my child, my son, when he had difficulties.

Ah. Okay.

I think that’s my challenge and my regret in my life. Yeah. Cause I actually could not see from his side, because… I actually always came first in class, in primary school. And my brother was the same. So if I didn’t do so well in high school, it was because I was a bit lazy, not because I can’t. But I knew I was lazy, what the heck, you know… I could always get by, it’s fine. And I always knew how to manage my studies, and actually how to pass exams. Yeah.

I don’t think I’m actually particularly knowledgeable because maybe I did not really try to understand the topic very much, but I actually know okay, this is what the lecture is saying, this is what he’s emphasizing, the exam is gonna be on that, I’ll study that, look up on that, and I’ll pass the exam.

Yeah. (Laughs)

I had a very efficient way of studying. (Laughs) And it actually worked pretty well. And so… When my son was spending such a lot of time studying, not really getting it, I actually didn’t understand. Okay… So then, I asked his father, and his side of the family. Apparently his father is dyslexic, and his father didn’t do very well in studies. So I thought, oh, maybe he is dyslexic! So when he was in primary school, I took him to a place, some… Specialist. And asked if he is really dyslexic. There was a test, service for Hong Kong education department. He had an assessment, and no he’s not really. If he had it, he overcame it in some way. You know, some kids have it when they were younger, but they don’t seem to have an issue. And then I thought maybe he was lazy, and just not focusing…

And yeah. I wish I can really turn back the clock and understand him. Now, I thought I had a good relationship with my son, but okay my son told me no, it wasn’t.

Oh. Wow. That must have been hard to hear.

It was very hard to hear. And I think sometimes I’m actually so immersed in work, because I don’t really want to address my personal life. Now he’s an adult, he’s working, he’s actually a doctor now. He found he has ADHD and he’s on medication, and that really helped his studies. And he actually managed this all on his own.

Okay.

Because I never noticed anything… I was a traditional mom, you know. You should study, blah blah… I think that is, yeah… I wish I could turn back the clock, but I couldn’t.

Yeah… What would you have done differently?

Well… Yeah. When he couldn’t concentrate, try to find out why. Maybe I could have tried to find out why, and not just assume it was laziness or that he didn’t want to, then I could maybe have picked up… I think, the sad thing. He said he doesn’t have dyslexia, then I thought, that’s done. It must be just him. And I think that made it worse.

Yeah.

Yeah… So I wish I could have picked it up, when he had difficulty. And the other thing is, I wanted him to be good at Chinese. Because I’m actually not very good in Chinese.

Oh!

I went to an English school since I was young. Speaking and understanding is no issue, but then when it comes to reading and writing… Reading, I have to read very slowly. If I find a good translation, I cannot be bothered. (Laughs) Just read the English version! And then yeah. Writing, again, very slowly, I could. But I prefer to read and write in English. And I think because of what I didn’t do, or what I couldn’t do well, I really wanted him to do well, and I put the pressure on him. You must learn your own language! Yeah… And I think that… Yeah. Both of these aspects made it worse. And if I could turn back the clock, it would first be to see the ADHD. And yeah, I guess I hated Chinese when I was young. I was not very good in the language. Everybody’s like that. There are some things you like in your subjects, and some things you don’t.

Yeah. Right.

Yeah… And yeah, I remember I started working when I was in Australia, one Chinese lady told me like, “Why didn’t you actually study more Chinese and be better in Chinese? Cause you would be even more brilliant! Much, much better if you were actually good in Chinese.”

Wow. That’s presumptuous!

Yeah, I think that made some impact on me. I said oh okay, so I wanted my child to be better than me. And since people say this is my deficiency, I don’t want him to have this deficiency. I guess this is a lot of parents’… I guess a trap. I’m not justifying. But it’s a trap. Sometimes, what your parents didn’t get to do, they want their children to achieve. Yeah.

Yeah… You did mention your mom a little bit. How has your relationship with her changed over time?

Okay… I have one brother, so it’s just me and my brother. When I was in my younger days, I always felt that she loved my brother more. Yeah… And also, why did I always come first in primary school? We went to the same primary school, so of course he actually started earlier than me. And because he actually the top of the class, when you get introduced… “Oh, this is Helen, John’s brother.” It’s like, “Oh, John!!”

Yeah.

So it’s either I become number one, or I am nothing.

Oh my gosh… Whew. And this is like, when you’re six years old!? (Laughs)

Yeah! (Laughs)

Ah, wow…

“Your brother is so good! He’s the top of the class!” Yeah, so I had this thing… When I just started school, in primary one. I was so upset. I felt that I had to get 100% in everything. I actually had a private tutor. She was preparing me for dictation for the next day. And I remember crying because I spelled one word wrong. Which will mean I get 99 instead of 100. I was crying. To me it was like 100 is pass, anything lower is a fail.

Yeah. Wow. You felt like your mom was pressuring you? Or did you just assume?

No, it wasn’t my mom. I just assumed. And my tutor said, “If you get one wrong, you’ll get 98, 95. Small mistake. It’s still a very good score!” Yeah. But I was just crying because of that. And I think I actually did get 100 the next day. (Laughs)

Wow. (Laughs)

Yeah. It’s just one of those incidents I remember so well, from so many years ago… Yeah. And I said okay. I look back, and realize I actually put a lot of pressure on myself. And my mom never said you have to get 100. Maybe not consciously, but maybe because I just lived in that environment. And then when I went to Australia, my brother and I were in different schools. And there was no comparison anymore!

Good!

So I didn’t drive for the top position. So whether it was my mom comparing myself to my brother, or I was just comparing myself to my brother, I felt I had to do the same, or I would be the second-class child. (Laughs)

Oh no!! (Laughs) Ahh!

I just put pressure onto myself. Yeah. And I think maybe my son, although he didn’t actually have a brother or sister, maybe he’s a bit like me, putting pressure on himself.

Yeah… How has your relationship with your mom changed as you’ve gotten older? Well as you’ve both gotten older! You’ve both grown up.

Yeah… Actually, because I left Australia, for more than twenty years already, okay… It was actually my brother visiting my mom frequently. And I just go back maybe once a year, or maybe once every second year, to spend time with her… So looking back, you know, if I could turn back the clock, I would have actually liked to spend more time with my mom. Yeah. When I see how my brother is devoted to my mom… Even if she really loved him more. When I see that, actually… He deserves it. Whereas I actually left to find my own life.

My brother was in Germany. He did his studies in Germany. He came back. And when I went, he just never went anywhere. Yeah. And he will buy small things for my mom, every time… He visits her… And I think he gave a lot of emotional support to my mom. Yeah. So you look back, all these things that you think, like she loves sons more than daughter. To me now, it does not matter.

Okay, I think everybody is a product of their own bring up and the society that they grew up with. Okay? Because she was she grew up in China. Chinese traditional… They will they like sons more than daughters. It’s not her fault. She actually grew up in that society. And of course, she actually tried her best not to, but there will be some elements of it.

Right.

Still… Because we are just humans. And then for me, to make myself feel better. I guess the “monster mom”, you know, the focus on academics. the typical Asian parents. Yeah. I was the typical Asian parent, too.

Yeah.

Yeah. If I could step back, look back. Of course, yeah, I can be more objective. And you know, maybe I should be aware of my tendency to become this Asian mom. Yeah. And I guess so… When you look at that, and I see, you know how I have affected my son, then I see. Yeah. Can I blame my mom? No, because my mom was doing what she thought was the best.

Yeah, I mean, do you expect her to actually think before she says every word? So that, okay, if she had complimented my brother, I have to give a compliment to my daughter every time to balance everything?

Yeah.

That’s just impossible.

Yeah. Wow. That’s so interesting. It’s just… We really are like, there’s just so much conditioning in our culture and how we’re brought up, yeah.

Yeah.

And it’s like, unless we do like very specific work to work on that… It’s like, you’re just perpetuating patterns, I guess, right? Like, just doing what you know, other people have done before.

Yeah, and that especially you do that more in your family than work, because work, you’re more conscious.

Right.

With family, okay. I left work. I just do, you know, things that are natural. I don’t think about what I say. I don’t think before I do something, because I really did that for at least eight hours!

Right. Yeah. Yeah. It’s necessary.

You wouldn’t criticize your boss! You think, “How am I going to put this?” Because you don’t want to be fired!

Yeah. (Laughs)

Because of my comment. But you don’t think about that, with your partner, with your family.

Yeah.

Yeah. So…

So what what are some… If you’re comfortable sharing, what’s something you are struggling with currently? Like, what’s a challenge that you are dealing with now?

Yeah, I guess my biggest struggle is still my relationship with my son.

Okay.

I love him a lot. I would actually love that he accepts me, and understands… Yeah. Okay. Well, he said he doesn’t want to have any kids. So okay, maybe he would never understand. Because sometimes some things, you have to be become a parent and then you understand. Yeah, so I’m not sure how he’s… Yeah. How we’re going. But I guess I’m the kind of person who is a survivor. Okay, if I have to live under these circumstances, I just try to make sure how I can… Live best, given the conditions, okay.

So for example, my son said, oh, you know, I don’t want you to live in my house. I said, yeah. So when I visited him in Melbourne, then I said, okay, let’s go away somewhere together. Then I don’t have to think about why I cannot live in your house when there is a guest room. And since we’re actually not in Melbourne City itself, we’re just gonna… Yeah, just yeah. Let’s just spend time together. I mean, if we had to argue over that, it’ll just become worse.

I mean, I think the only thing is as long as I can afford… And I think this is why I want to keep working, because I want to be independent, financially independent. And then I can have choices. 

Right, yeah.

So I pay for everything. I say oh, let’s go away. I pay for the thing. And then we just go away. So I guess, yeah, I guess another fear I have is, money. I just want to actually have sufficient money. So that not only that I can have a place to live and have food to eat. But I can actually choose, you know, the things I like to do, the things I like to wear, and the kind of restaurant I like to go to. And I see a lot of retired people… They’re financially comfortable. Okay. But you will notice that because they’re not actually having a regular income—I mean, they do have income from the investment or something. Okay. But, you know… And they have like rental apartments that they have some income from. However, you will feel that the way they spend money is a bit different. And I’m sure when they were working, they were actually spending more freely, and then they’ll say, oh, this restaurant is a bit expensive. It’s not worth it. And I said, well, actually, you know, I’m so tired. I really want to sit down in a nice restaurant.

Yeah.

If I’m just going to eat at McDonald’s, I’d rather just go home. And watch my Netflix. So I want that financial… I feel that I don’t need to be wealthy. But I want to be able to do, to live… How I like. How I want. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. And that includes a lot of traveling right?

Yeah, okay. Well, the travel. Yes. Okay. I went to Italy this year with my friend, my primary school friend. 

Oh, nice!

I still keep in touch with my primary school friends.

Wow!

Yeah. And then this year, okay, I also went to China. Like Shanghai and Beijing, but that was a business trip. And then to Austria. It was also a business trip. But then I stayed back a little bit to go to Hallstatt, to see… Yeah, because my friend, colleague recommended it. It is also a very popular tourist place out there. Yeah, it’s beautiful. So yeah, I like for a long personal travel, usually just once. Or twice a year. So I also went to Melbourne and Sydney to actually see my friends. And my son. So yeah, two personal trips. And two is like business related. Yeah. So four times.

Okay, yeah.

And then for business trip, then yeah, if I could stay. If it’s an interesting place, and I want to stay over longer for a weekend, I will. And I’ve been lucky because in my previous jobs, there’s also business travel. So I could actually stay back and see places. So there are some places I visited just because of work. Oh, Chicago is one of them. And Miami. Yeah, we used to have yearly global meetings in Miami. I wish I still worked for that company, but our company was sold. But that was great! So yeah, Miami, Chicago. I went there just for work.

Okay.

Yeah, and it was nice. Yeah. And yeah, like Dubai, I think. Yeah. I also went there only for work. So there are many trips that I yeah, that I go that are actually business related. Yeah. So I’m lucky to have that kind of jobs that are actually the regional role or a global role. So that yeah, I get to travel!

Yeah, that’s that’s pretty interesting. Where is someplace you haven’t been yet that you’d like to go to?

Yeah, well, you reminded me that I haven’t been to Africa. 

Right!

Yes. Oh, yeah. Okay, but before Africa, if you want to go to Greece first, because it’s so beautiful. My friends has been there. They post pictures on Facebook. Oh, my God! It’s so beautiful! I have to go there. And I also want to go to Croatia because I was watching a show on a local TV station. It looks so beautiful. And I want to go there. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. And then Africa and Egypt, I guess. Yeah.

Okay. Egypt. Yeah. What do you know about Egypt that… Like, what draws you to there?

I really know very little, apart from the pyramids. I guess it’s one of those things that you say, you think of Egypt, “Okay, I should just see it once!”

Right.

Yeah, yeah, actually see the thing at least once. Oh, there are many places I want to go to. I want to go to Maltese, before it actually sinks. Will it really disappear? I should go. Yeah, there’s just so many, many places in the world. Yeah.

Cool. Yeah. Just a couple more questions. How do you define success?

Success is happiness. Yeah, yeah. It’s not easy to be content. So happiness is being contented with what you have. Okay, why I say that. I have a primary school friend. She’s quite, I guess, financially comfortable. And she also married someone who’s also very financially comfortable. And this happened quite a few years ago, when we still called people on their home phones instead of a mobile phone.

So, given that I went to school with her, together, I just told you she’s a long term friend. One day when I call her, her husband actually picked up the phone. So I know her husband, so I actually casually talked to him. Oh, how are you, long time no see, because at that time, I was still living in Singapore. I should, yeah. And so I talked to him for a while and then yeah. And then he said, oh you’re looking for your friend. I said, yeah, thank you. So when my friend actually picked up, the first thing she said to me was oh, what were you talking to my husband? You’re laughing. You guys are laughing. This is when I thought, money doesn’t make you happy.

Hm. Yeah. Dang.

I mean, you have to actually watch over every conversation that your husband has with a female? I think, that’s such a full time, 24 by 7 job. Worse than my working 12 hours a day!

(Laughs) Yeah. Oof. Dang. Wow.

Yeah. Success is being content. My life is not perfect, and far from it. But knowing how to be content.

I think that’s success.

Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Thank you for sharing all of that. And yeah, what’s what’s something you’re looking forward to?

I actually always think of I should do something online, and be successful online. Be able to influence women online. Actually, make some money out of it because I want more money to spend.

Yeah. (Laughs)

I haven’t quite thought of a business model, yet. So if you have some ideas that we can do collaborate and do some ideas together, that will be lovely! Yeah. Because yeah, I think I have lots to share in my life.

Yeah, definitely.

That could actually inspire people. Yeah. Not just the superficial, how to dress and look better. But how to feel, how to actually feel better? And how to be content. How to make the best of what you have.

Yeah, and what what are some things that you do regularly to feel your best?

Okay, I should not mention shopping because this is only like, people are very depressed when you see the credit card bills. (Laughs) I do like to sing! Okay. I like singing. I think yeah, have good performance on the fourth of December.

Oh!

I’m not paid for it. Okay, so I have a friend who organizes this kind of concerts for people who are not professional singers, but they like to sing. And then he just, he books a concert hall. And then the singers do reimburse him for the costs of actual hiring, the hall and everything. And then we just give tickets away. And it’s just what people who just want to enjoy. Okay, if you want to listen, you can just get a ticket. If you want to sing that you can actually prepare yourself. Sing, dress up. Be like a celebrity! Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, that’s so nice.

And the best experience I had… Because about a month ago, I did one actually, we were participating in a government event, I think for the October national holidays. So they were giving tickets away to the elderly, to a concert. Okay. And I was one of the I guess, performers. And there was a dance group. And I think that dance group, they’re all their 70s and 80s. Yeah, they were encouraging elderly, you know, to actually move and yeah, it was such a great group. And then when I sing and then there was some fast salsa that you can dance with. We actually got all that group to dance! It was so fun.

Oh, that’s so that’s so wholesome. I love it.

Yeah, I think that is actually a very, very great moment in my life. This is so good, you know, doing something for the community. And yeah, so actually, I told the organizer if you actually have any other things for the elderly, get it touch with me, because I really love that.

That’s great. Yeah, um, all right. Well, those are all the questions I have. Is there anything else you wanted to talk about?

No, I think we’ve covered a lot of topics, right? Yeah. And I hate to admit, because I really want to go shopping today. Yeah. For winter, I really need to get some new items. Okay. Yeah, I like to be fashionable. It’s a bit… Yeah, wasteful. Not good for the environment. Not good for your wallet. I just can’t help it! (Laughs) So I’ll promise to not buy too much. Not too much damage to the environment through fast fashion.

(Laughs) All right, well, thank you so much.