Wise Not Withered

https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-vbv4u-15fa745

Hello and welcome to the Wise Not Withered Podcast! This is Season 4, and we are on Episode 13. This will actually be the last episode of Season 4; I will do a pivot into Season 5, and I’ll talk about that next month. This month’s guest was Manpreet Johal Bernie. I found her first through Tiny Buddha, where she has written many different kinds of articles. She also has her own podcast, called Heart’s Happiness. She is a transformational coach and a writer; she made a fascinating transition from what she used to do and how it translates to the work she does now. TRIGGER WARNING: She does talk about self-harm and suicide. I do want to also say that even though we talk a lot about trauma, one of the main points she also stands for is post-traumatic GROWTH. I’m really honored and excited to share the final episode of Season 4 with Manpreet Johal Bernie. She is just such a warm, loving, kind-hearted soul, and I can’t wait for you to hear her story.

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Cool so, let’s see, is it Manpreet? Am I saying that right?

Yeah, it says Manpreet. So I have got married since I got Zoom, so it’s Manpreet Johal Bernie, and my Podcast and all the things I do is Heart’s Happiness.

Yeah, Heart’s Happiness. That’s so… It’s just so wholesome, I love it.

Thank you!

Yeah. All right, let’s start with… What’s your age?

So I am… I’ve just turned 42, and I can’t remember that, because I feel like I’m 25!

(Laughs) Yeah, and talk more about that. What do you mean you feel like 25?

As I’ve got older, I seem to have way more ambition for my life than I did when I was 25, so I can’t quite believe that I’m 42, because I’m living more as a 42-year-old than I did when I was 25 because I was in a lot of pain when I was 25, so… Very different. But it’s just, the number’s getting bigger.

Mhm, yeah, amazing. And so where did you grow up, and where do you live now?

So I was born and raised in London in the UK, and I lived there… I moved around London but my whole life I didn’t leave London—like the city and you know, well, I was in the suburbs, but generally that whole area—until I was like 39, which is, you know, part of my new life, my new chapter. I didn’t really know who I was when I was living in London, so I was raised in my family. There’s lots of trauma and lots of difficulties and I was just caught up in all of that and I had like a career in London where I worked for big companies in IT and change management and things like that.

So I was just really caught up in the world, like London, like New York, and these big cities, you know… It’s like lots of like going out, and drinking, and work that I didn’t enjoy and then all my dramas that was at home, so I was just caught up in this whole bubble there. But as you get older, and you start… I began my own healing journey, I started to figure out who I was, and actually I don’t love the city life, so I’m now in, more near the coast in the UK. So in Kent, which is like south, so lots of like nature, walks, and sunsets and a much smaller pace of life. Well, not my job, but, you know, just outside my house anyway, so I love it here. So it’s really real different, but again, a big decision that I made as I got older, as I decided to discover who I truly am!

Yeah! Yeah, and I want to dive into all of that. I’m so curious. What is your… What is the work that you do?

So I am a trauma transformation coach and mentor.

Okay, so you mentioned IT, so you have made the transition…

Completely changed.

Amazing, okay.

I used to do change management for big companies. I now do that for people!

(Laughs) Okay!! Yeah!

It was a complete accident. It’s not what I was trained in like. I went to university here in the UK and I did like… I did it to please my dad. Actually he was a computing teacher, so I did computing and business analysis and all of this kind of stuff. But it’s just my own journey. As I started to get older, I lost my dad to suicide when I was 26, and so the person that I had created this whole life to please was no longer alive. And when I started to struggle myself, like in my mid-30’s, after he’d been gone for a long time, I started to have real issues myself, like especially in romantic relationships, with my relationship with alcohol, with doing work, I didn’t like, I was just really struggling.

So I got into a sort of rock bottom situation and… I was like mid to late 30s couldn’t get into a healthy relationship, and it was then that I was like, am I just gonna be like my dad? Am I gonna take my life, or… Am I, you know, I’m gonna be like my family and just be unhappy? Like what’s going on with me? I started my own journey of like, healing and discovery, and that is the journey that led me to my work. So it’s a complete accident.

What happened was I was going to therapy, but I remember being in therapy and being like, okay, I get that I’ve got all of this like childhood trauma and that’s why I’m being a complete crazy person with men, but like, how do I change this? I remember saying… I just, like I don’t know if I’m allowed to swear, but I was like, how do I do that?

Go ahead!

It was like, how do I not be fucked? That’s what I said to her.

Yeah, so real.

I became obsessed with like okay, well, is there a way I can change? So I worked on changing basically, and then I started to get people ask me, how have you changed? Like how did you break that pattern? How did you used to be this like, woman with really low self-esteem and low confidence and bad relationships, and you know, I was very single for many, many years. How did you get to change that and be something else?

So I was like oh, and I would tell my story, and it wasn’t until you know COVID times and 2020 that I was like, oh, maybe I should start sharing it on a podcast because, podcasts had been so helpful for me as a medium, as part of me understanding what was going on with me. So that’s how I kind of started with Heart’s Happiness, which is my podcast, and then people started to reach out to me and say, could you teach me what you did?

So the very first thing I did was I just created a course and I was like, step by step, like I would be training at work, for like a custom change. I was just teaching them how to do what I did. And then it kind of evolved from there where people started to ask me to do it one-to-one and then I started to train in some of the modalities that really helped me, like EFT tapping, and eye movement, and NLP, and things like that. So I trained, but all of this time I was still working in the corporate world. So I used to work for the VPC in their IT. I wasn’t like a media person. So I was doing both at the same time. But the more that I was getting interested with Heart’s Happiness, I was like this is what really sets my soul on fire. So actually I’d really like to leave. So I left, just… I’d been running Heart’s Happiness for about a year and a half, so I left just before my 40th birthday and, yeah, best thing ever! And slowly, slowly, it’s just been growing! And I’ve got like clients all over the world. I get to teach them my methodology. And it’s turning into some other thing now as well, where I get to help other people turn their healing journey into their work as well.

So I’ve got like little business-starting, and helping people like that. You know, with that transformation that I made as well, so it’s been really cool to turn all of that pain into something else.

Right, yeah, that’s so inspiring! I love that. Yeah, can you talk more about your podcast? There’s… I’ve listened to a few episodes. There’s like the three areas, like what are the main parts of your podcast?

Yeah, so I have a lot of guests on. I do bring people on that are like you know… Because when I started I wasn’t a professional myself, so I bring in like experts, like therapists and coaches and healers and people that could help others to undo what’s happened in their lives and make them feel better. So that was kind of what I decided to start with and share my story. Like I really feel that when we share stories, we help people to understand their own story.

So that’s kind of where I started, but then, as time went on, I discovered that I was some kind of teacher about this stuff. So I do a lot of content on you know, like how we can change, and, like you know, delving into different issues to do with trauma. So you know, dysfunctional relationships, trauma in the body and how we can change those things. 

The addictions that happened during the process, like you know, what I was actually doing in relationship with men was actually called love addiction, so it was very like, almost like intoxicated by men that were very unavailable, but that’s very common with people like ourselves that have been through trauma. So sharing stuff like that, talking about traumas and yeah, so it’s very much to do with mental, spiritual, emotional wellbeing, but it’s very holistic and we talk a lot about health as well and how even we can eat to heal you know our trauma and things like that. So it’s really evolved over years, but it’s still my favorite part of the week. So I love sharing and I’ve shared pretty much… I think two weeks I’ve missed, but for the last three and a half years I’ve pretty much had a podcast out every week.

Wow, every week. Amazing.

Yeah, been a long time, so I haven’t done seasons or anything, it’s just been like a consistent thing. But it’s mad, because I’ll get somebody you know from where you are, like reach out or Australia, or like all parts of the world. And people that from different backgrounds, they’re not the same upbringing as me and we’ve just got the same story. It’s just… To hear that my random content help people like that is kind of cool. 

Yeah, yeah, it’s definitely so… It’s so powerful. Yeah, just resonates with a lot of people.

Yeah.

Let’s see, I guess getting a little lighter. What are some of your hobbies that you do outside of all this intense work? (Laughs)

(Laughs) I know I do really love it, though it’s great, of course. 

Right, of course.

I do actually really love it, so to the point that it’s really hard to just come from the point of me or the business stuff, because I’m really into like self development and personal development anyway. So I am quite spiritual, do love the woo-woo’s! So I love like reading spiritual books or self-help books. I just cannot get enough. It’s terrible. Like I went on holiday recently for my birthday and you know I read just so many books. That’s just like my thing. So I do love traveling and seeing the world. I always loved that before as well. I love reading and just… I do have a natural desire for all the things that I bring into my work. So just everything about that, like you know, and going to sound baths and sound healings. It’s like a way that I can help my clients, my teaching, stuff like that, but it’s something for myself. 

Right.

It was really interesting. Through this journey of setting up my business and also helping other people and being on my own healing journey, I’ve really discovered who I am. So years ago I would have been someone very, very different. Like I would have been… I wouldn’t even consider myself like more extroverted, but I’m actually really introverted. So I’ll actually just love, like, being now and just like you know nature, I do love to see the world, I love to learn and I love connecting with people that are like deep and don’t mind talking about the crazy things about life. I love a conversation. I still… I used to work for fashion companies, still love things like fashion and things like that and like finding ways to be creative. Yeah, I just love and I love… I do love what I do. Like, so I love meeting and hearing people’s stories and watching those people just transform. It’s incredible. I guess I just feel really blessed that I feel, just like… You know, like actually really like my life when I used to just absolutely hate it. 

Right, yeah, that’s beautiful, I love it. 

I had to create it. You know, like it wasn’t like that. It was… And I didn’t even know who I am, and I’m still discovering who I am. I really enjoy it. Because for so many years I was just like people-pleasing and about what other people wanted from me, or what society expected. You know, especially even… You know, as a woman, I never had aspirations to like grow a brand or, you know, grow a business, like it felt like a real thing that I wasn’t really into. But I love that now! I love helping women to be independent and create their own finances and, you know, use it for the good of the world and stuff like that.

I didn’t even think I was, you know, like into that kind of achieving or anything like that, but I do love it. I actually do really love business, which is weird. 

Yeah, and that is somewhat recent.

Yeah, I never would have thought that was who I was before.

Yeah. So you did talk about your dad a little bit. I’m curious about your relationship with your mom, amidst all of the stuff that happened with your dad. I mean you can talk about both, but yeah, I’m curious about your mom too.

Yeah, so our relationship was complicated because basically she, her and my dad had this very abusive relationship. Well, you know my mom suffered domestic abuse with him. She’s from… My parents are both are from an Indian, a South Asian Indian, background.

So, even though we lived in the UK about my whole life and they came when they were very young, like three and seven. They were like all together in an arranged marriage and very much like… My mom was made to stay in that marriage, even though she did try to leave, like when I was a baby.

Oh, wow.

And as years went on, that relationship with my dad got worse. So my dad, after he lost his parents—he was okay before that, but after he lost his parents, like when he was 30, he started to really struggle with alcohol himself. His dad was a very aggressive, abusive man and he started to become more like that.

So their relationship really deteriorated. He was very controlling and things like that. So my relationship with my mom was very much her protector and like taking care of her. So we had a really very weird relationship where, almost like she wanted me to be her partner, almost in the sense of somebody she could talk to or someone she could confide in.

Yeah.

And it wasn’t like she was my mom, if you know what I mean, and we had a very complicated relationship because of that but… And I was always trying to save her and take care of her and that kind of thing. And it was only after my dad took his life when I was 26 that we slowly, slowly, have been rebuilding our relationship. So my mom has also been on her own healing journey from what she’s been through.

She’s like a hypnotherapist and a counselor and she helps women that have been abused. So she’s on her own like self development kind of path and she’s been my client, like I’ve helped her with loads of things. So as time went on, we really like… Like grown our relationship, I think, and, you know, create boundaries and rebuild some of the stuff that happened because you know she was so distracted by that relationship so she couldn’t give me, you know, what I needed, I guess, growing up.

But you know we’re very close. She lives like 20 minutes away from me, like we have a walk every morning. You know we have a great relationship and and it’s really got better and healthier as time gone on and I don’t feel upset with my mom or even my dad actually, but, they never knew what they were doing was unhealthy for me because somebody had done that to them.

So they were just repeating what they had seen. Like, I took a lot in my podcast about generational trauma you know, that is what was repeating in my family, like that abuse and also like the way that they were treating themselves and my dad going to alcohol, you know. And then that’s kind of what I did when I was in pain, when, after I lost my dad is I started to follow some of the things that they taught me. My mom used to work a lot—that would be my thing. Or my dad used to drink a lot—that was my thing. They were in a dysfunctional relationship—I was doing that too. Learning about generational trauma has really allowed me to forgive them and make peace with my past, to do with them, and actually now rebuild a better relationship with my mom. And sometimes it’s great, and sometimes I kind of go… Crossing a boundary there, mom, that’s not great. So, like you know, it’s taken some bravery and courage for me to be able to say some of those things.

Yeah, yeah… Wow… Yeah, I’ve also been learning more about generational trauma in the last few years. Been reading some books, and some coaches. Yeah, what are some of the resources that you’ve had around that topic?

Oh, I’ve got loads of books here. So some of the ones I love are… Well, Gabor Mate. I mean, he’s got a great book recently about this as well, traumatized society, and you know… I’ve given all my books to my some of my clients. So one of the things really weird is by Mark Wolynn, It Didn’t Start With You, is a really good one.

Oh, okay.

So that’s massively about generational trauma. That’s actually a really good one, and people are just talking about this more and more about how, you know, the body keeps score as well, so the body is holding on to the trauma.

Right.

And then we’re like, obviously procreating and you know, passing that on. So my mum, for example, when she was pregnant with me she was living in a really unsafe environment because she used to live with my grandad, he was an alcoholic, and that fear, and that anxiety was in her body while my nervous system is being created.

Right.

So, all of that gets wired into our bodies and then when we look at, you know, the generation that we come from. So you know what… You know what background you’re from. So for me I’m from a North Indian background, which is like Sikhs and Punjabis, which is… There’s a lot of trauma, there’s a lot of war that went on there. There is a very small religion, also very much affected by British colonization. So when you look back at the history of your family and your heritage, that points to a lot of trauma as well.

So what you have for many, many generations is people living in survival and nobody actually taking the time to heal and get better before they procreate or before… Even how they parent. So it’s getting passed along, that fear and that survival, not just through the cells but through behaviors, you know, through learning patterns, and it’s like… Yeah, it’s a bit like a disease, to be honest. You know just kind of just repeating until somebody goes, “I think I need to change something.”

Right. I mean, it’s very subconscious and I feel like a lot of people don’t even realize there is another option.

That’s right. That’s right. I look at something like, with my business, I’ve had to really work on low self-esteem, low self-worth about even charging something. And if I look at my family, that’s been there for ages. My parents were immigrants. So even though they had good jobs, you know, they always felt scared they wouldn’t have money and that’s because when they came, here they didn’t.

Right.

And they struggled with like poverty and that was wired into their bodies and they never actually helped themselves to feel safe. So with my clients, a lot of the time we’re learning about their generational story and then we’re kind of understanding how their nervous system was created and how that sort of panic comes into their body, and learning how to support their bodies and their nervous systems and soothing them so that they can kind of find freedom from all of that.

And you know, I think it’s such a huge problem in our world. To be honest, Now, if you look at the things that are happening in our world, it’s so much to do with these things, you know, just causing so many problems because they’re not being… We’re not taught in school, how to take care of these things, or how to discharge all of this. So people get angry and then they do bad things. So it’s so interesting, but yeah, I believe all the problems come from that generational trauma.

Yeah. In one of your most recent episodes… I forget the exact phrasing—you’ll have to remind me. It was so fascinating. It’s like everyone talks about post traumatic stress, but I think it was post traumatic… Was it resilience? Post traumatic resilience.

Post traumatic growth.

Yeah!

Yeah, yeah, that’s a total thing. So you know, over the last 20 years probably, maybe less than that, maybe even fifteen years… So there’s been more and more like information, data, scientists doing experiments that… People that were brought up in traumatized backgrounds lots of unsafety, how actually they were able to heal and create new neuro-patterns in their body and also to reprogram that nervous system. Whereas therapists in the old day would just be like “Sorry, you’re just going to have to deal with this for the rest of your life.”

But actually learning how to like soothe your nervous system, you know, help it to overcome some of the stuff that it’s been through, you know doing things like inner child work, helping our younger self that’s sort of stuck in time, helping them to heal, means that we can feel safer and more balanced in our lives. So something that’s called complex trauma, complex PTSD, which means I never got like you know it wasn’t one big thing that gave me trauma. It was little bit unsafety for many, many years of my life…

And that just meant I was anxious, I couldn’t sleep, I had addictions, I was full of a lot of fear, a lot of low self-esteem, low self-worth, and really my development had been stunted by what I’d been through as a child. You know I am struggling in relationships, I am struggling in work, or I am struggling with money. I am struggling with like addiction and spending too much money and debt. That’s that definitely was a thing that was happening to me. But by learning how to heal from it all, you know like understand what’s going on with my body, support my body to heal, learn how to feel safe within it.

There was a time even I’m in like my dream house and I’d be sitting here. I’d be like… I still feel scared, like I was still like a bit jittery, because my body hadn’t quite realized it was safe.

Oh.

So I’ve done a lot of somatic practicing that can help my body to feel safe. So when you do that over time, you start to like change… And then because of your experiences, the bad experiences that have happened into your life, you’re starting to figure out who you are, you’re starting to want more for your life, you’re starting to create something. You’re starting your own, like spiritual kind of awakening, almost like a rebirth

Yeah.

So it’s just incredible and it’s not just me, like this is happening for my clients as well, which is incredible to see them, you know, be… When you’ve been a powerless child, to like childhood trauma and abuse. You have no power. You have, you know, you’re just trying to survive. But to see them, you know, now getting better and then deciding to create magic for themselves, it’s incredible.

So yeah, for anybody listening, you know there is so much hope, there’s so much beauty that can come from it, and you know I really see that the bad things that I’ve been through… It’s you know, now, so far away from it, it can be such a gift as well. Because of those experiences, the way I can help someone with theirs, it’s so different, because I know what it feels like and also I know what it feels like to change it. That’s what I think is the post-traumatic growth. So I love talking about that, but there is such hope for us. It’s a journey.

Yeah, yeah, I love that it’s. It’s like a whole new layer. It’s like not just acknowledging all these things that happened, but also realizing we can… We can grow past it too. Yeah, I guess along those lines, what are some of the biggest challenges you’ve had in your life? You’ve talked about, you know, your dad’s taking his own life, and your business. Are there any other things that come to mind when you think of challenges that you’ve overcome?

I’ve had a lot of challenges. I would say, like the twenty-six years of life, it was pretty much hell, so…

Yeah.

So I had a difficult, very difficult childhood. Not just because of dad. My granddad was a big alcoholic, I lost my grandma—she used to look after me—very, very young, at five. So then my parents’ relationship… My dad was incredibly indolent, emotionally abusive. So basically for twenty-six years before he died, there was just a lot of stress. That was incredibly challenging.

But also, was incredibly normal, because that was just my life since I was born! And then as I got older, I really struggled in relationships. So I’d have romantic relationships with people that were addicts or they were unavailable in some way, or they were you know, in some kind of relationship, but they liked me and so I had a lot of drama around romantic love, which is not surprising given what I grew up with. So that was a lot of challenging times, I would say.

And then just how all of that upbringing, what it brought in me. So, you know, because of that, having anxiety, not being able to sleep, having health issues. So that was incredibly challenging. And as I got older and definitely as you know, I’ve been on my own healing journey, I think the challenges that I’ve had later in life, the more I’ve got to know myself, firstly, a big one being the impact of all that trauma in my body. So it’s actually really affected me. So there’s been some physical implications of that. Like there’s a great book by Gabor Mate called The Body Says No. I think my body has definitely been saying no. So there’s like some sign going on, like autonomy, which is something that I’m aware of now and I’m working through. But sadly, because of that, I even had a miscarriage because my body didn’t feel safe, the whole lot to the pregnancy because of what I’ve been through so… Those challenges in life.

It even got me down to a cellular level. So that’s been a huge thing. And then going for a big dream like, okay, well, I quit my job and I’ll get a job and start a business, and not knowing how to do one, it was incredibly challenging! How do you earn money, how do you pay your bills, how do you pay for things like a mortgage? That was incredibly challenging. So, but the things that are great about these challenges you know, even like more recently, having my miscarriage and you know, the struggles with finances. Going for my dreams. Is I actually learned so much in those, that journey, and like about my self-belief, or my self-worth, or about how I was taking care of my body, or about like how maybe I wasn’t always showing myself love. So I do like to think that even the challenges that I’ve had later in life have been somewhat given to me for a reason.

You know and I find that no matter what I go through, I seem to use it as a way to teach others as well, so…

Yeah!

I think life, you know, life throws us a lot of curveballs, doesn’t it? You know? And it’s just how… The tools that we use to be able to get ourselves through it, and learning from it, and you know how can we make things better for ourselves. So, yeah, I’ve definitely had… I’m writing a book at the moment, so that’s what… It’s so challenging it deserves a book.

Yeah! Ah! I love that so much. Oh, amazing. Yeah,

I’m excited!

Yeah, I love that. It’s like… I love that you acknowledge that you’ve sort of always had a lot of challenges, but now that your mindset is shifted, it’s like how you are using what you’re going through to propel yourself forward rather than getting stuck in a loop.

Yeah. Exactly so, like even with, you know, when I had my miscarriage, you know, obviously it was devastating and you know, I went through a lot of grief that brought up other things and I had a really hard time.

But, like exactly that, it was like, oh okay, so what is going on? So when I started to… I started to like learn about the body and, you know, delve into this deeper. Because, like, if I was to go to the doctors here, they wouldn’t be able to give me some of that information. But I know my history, I know my story. I’ve read so much about the way that trauma affects the body. I was like, oh okay, so I’ve actually made so many changes in my life to help my body to heal, which I wouldn’t have done if I hadn’t been through that experience, to be honest. I would have just carried on being crazy and working too much and not taking care of myself. So it actually has helped.

But, yeah, but we could all… Also, totally okay for people to fall apart and be sad when bad things happen. I do that as well. I do fall apart a lot of the time, but it’s always great to kind of use it as a way to learn and grow and heal a bit more.

Mhm! Yeah, amazing. I love that. Are, were you an only child?

No, I’ve got a younger brother.

Okay.

Yeah, he’s just two years, nine months younger than me. He’s actually the same age as my husband. (Laughs)

Okay, and what’s your relationship with him like?

So it’s a complicated one because he’s been through so much as well. Like you know, we lived in the same house. We’ve got like a similar story and he’s struggled with everything too, in his way, which sometimes is different than my way. And definitely because of those struggles it has impacted our relationship.

So, even though you know it can be strained at times or sometimes, you know, we are closer. But I just think we give each other a lot of grace in the sense as we both been through a lot. So, yeah, it’s been a complicated one. He struggles with things in a different way and uses different things to be able to cope with them.

And it’s been hard. Like I always feel like we’ve been through like a war together. And you know, like we’ve chosen very different ways to deal with that war, and and you know, we have loads of love for each other. But, yeah, definitely growing up in that environment didn’t give us a great recipe for like, the perfect sibling relationship, I would say.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I do find that fascinating, the ways that siblings growing up in the same environment can just interpret and internalize things totally differently. Yeah.. I also have a brother, older brother, and we’ve talked in more recent years about things that were just… You know, just little blips for him and completely traumatized me, and then other things that I could tell he was going through something, but he never talked about it, and it was like totally off my radar. And, yeah, just that whole kind of dynamic is really interesting to look back on.

Yeah, yeah, and with like boy and girl—that’s a real dynamic difference. In our culture, we’ve been treated a bit differently because of that. And I think my parents always tried not to, but it’s definitely there, and that’s definitely affected things. Yeah, but we just have different ways of dealing with it, or not dealing with it sometimes. And yeah, it’s definitely affected our relationship, but we do have a lot of love for each other, and want the best for each other. But we don’t always get the best, because of it.

Yeah. If you don’t mind talking more about your husband and like how… Because, I heard that in one of your episodes, you said you wrote about him and then… Yeah!

I did!

Yeah, so like that whole like… Manifesting, and how you shifted your own… relationship… things. (Laughs)

Yeah, like I said, I was a complete car crash with relationships, and I really invested a lot of time, energy, and even money into getting better. So therapy and coaching, things like that. I started to become very aware of my patterns, and the kind of men that I was attracted. I started to think about what I really want in someone, what don’t I want. What’s a red flag? What feels good to me? I was looking at all the relationships I’d been in, my friendships, my family relationships. What was really a red flag in my relationship with my parents? Unconsciously, I kept going out with versions of my dad, to be honest.

So, becoming very clear. Literally, I brought up a spreadsheet that I could score someone on, which I now give to my clients to help them with their dating process. The hilarious thing was, when I was having therapy and coaching, my husband was actually sitting opposite me at work, so he was there the whole time. But I just wasn’t interested in him cause I was still attracted to the people I was attracted to before.

Through the healing process, and becoming more aware of things, and all of that, I started to notice him. It’s so interesting. So that’s what I mean, when you change, you change within your mind, you start to see the world different. You see the world through a different set of eyes. My eyes were very traumatized before, and things were changing, and I could really appreciate this more quiet, gentler kind of man.

It’s a really funny story. So I had written this spreadsheet probably four weeks before we started to get together. And it was almost like days, my coach had said to me… Cause the recommendation with coaching and therapy was to not date, to focus on yourself, cause if you bring anybody else in, it can complicate thing.

So she had said to me, “I really think you’re ready to date now!” So it was pretty much after that, like days, you know, he sort of started to tell me he liked me. And my husband is from a different background from me. So I’m from an Indian background, and he’s super English—got some Welsh and Irish. Very different background from me.

But you know, he scored very highly on my spreadsheet! I got very scared at the beginning, because I’ve never known a man that was emotionally available, and there for me. And part of you, when you’ve not been treated that way by your own family, you know, you don’t you question your worthiness, it feels very scary that they might leave you, you know.

So there was a lot of things I had to work on in myself to be able to allow myself to receive his love. So that was a real journey in itself. But yeah, it’s… We’ve been together for now I think it’s five years and married for nearly two. So yeah, he’s wonderful! Again, post-traumatic growth. He’s not like my parents. Or he’s like the good parts of them, I would say. And I always say, if I can break this pattern, anyone can, because it was so bad.

Yeah. Ah, I love that so much. That’s just so inspiring. I mean, everything you’re sharing is just so inspiring. (Laughs) Yeah, I just have a couple more questions. How do you define success?

Oh, wow. This is something I’ve really been thinking about this this year, actually, because is it monetary? Is it, you know, all of these things? Is it the amount of people that you’re helping? But actually, I really think about how healthy you are, how much you’re enjoying your life. You know, positive impact in people’s lives, but actually you’re really having a positive impact within your own life as well, like you’re taking care of yourself really well. So it’s not something like you’ve burned yourself out to create great success in the world. So for me, success is helping people by sharing my stories, as many people as I can, but by also honoring and taking care of myself. Like to me, true success is to be able to do it for others and change people’s lives, but also to be treating myself like, you know, the most important results, and I didn’t always do that. And that’s something I’ve been working on.

Yeah. Oh, I love that so much. And you mentioned you’re working on a book. What other things are you looking forward to?

So, yeah, I definitely want to be bringing my book into the world this year.

This year! Oh!!

Yeah, this year, I want to get out. I also want to become a mum of a human child. So I’m working on all the changes that I have to do on that. So that’s really important. And I’ve had a course that I’ve been… I’ve had since the beginning, you know, the one that I spoke about. That course has really evolved over the years. So one of my big intentions this year especially where, you know, I’m preparing my life for motherhood and for taking care of myself, I really want to get that course out to help more people, because I don’t have to… It’s got such good stuff in there that like it’s got how to take care of your nervous system and you’re somatic… Make your body feel safe, and how to break the relationship patterns, and it’s got all of that good stuff in it and I don’t have to sit there and teach everybody, so…

Right.

It’s just like I’ll be able to help more people. So that and the book is a really big intention for me this year, is to help more people and to kind of begin post-traumatic growth, and so that’s like my big, big dream, and then to have a family whilst I do it would be wonderful.

Yeah, that’s a lot.

Yeah, and then the really big one! I’m working on generating income because I’d love to have a charity. I grew up, you know, around domestic abuse, and a lot of my clients as well have suffered… Backgrounds where they’re in these abusive situations, to be able to help get out and to be able to help them heal, to be able to give them legal support. So that’s something I’d really love to do, like from the back of my business stuff.

Yeah, oh, that’s great. I really love that. Yeah, that’s a very, very noble ambition.

Yeah, one day. One day when we’re rich.

Yeah, all right. Well, those are all the questions I have. Are there any other things that you wanted to talk about that we didn’t get to?

Yeah, so it’s actually your podcast name. I love it, by the way. Wise Not Withered.

Thank you.

I’m just thinking about what happens when you get older. I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately because I’m 42 and I’m like that’s really old, that feels really old. It feels like a really big number, but actually how, when you get older, you understand yourself and life and people… Everything starts to make more sense, but you just look like different. So it’s like, you didn’t even appreciate the like, youngness of what you were once. And when you get older, how much beauty comes from age, because you actually just like yourself more, or you know you were able to sort of work on some of the things that were causing you pain back then. I think it’s… Being older is such an amazing gift because it can just make life so much richer and better, which I never… When I was younger, I didn’t appreciate those things and I didn’t appreciate life or anything the way that I do now. From that time, healing and everything…

So everybody you know, just to keep… No matter what’s happened in your lives or what’s not made you feel good, it’s happened and you can… As you grow, you can sort of become that parent or that care of yourself that you never had.

I think that’s, you know, a real message that I was trying to say that, no matter what happened, you can grow from that and then, no matter what age you are, you can still have an incredible life and mind your happiness. Like I have clients that are like 60, 70, and they’re doing this healing work now. They’re happy and, you know, creating a life that makes them excited. Like it doesn’t have to be any kind of age, you can just decide, you know?

Yeah. Oh, I love that so much. That’s such a great message. Yeah, I do feel like a lot of people in 60s and 70s are like, oh well, I’m too old. No, you’re not, you’re not too old. We do have neuroplasticity. We still have neuroplasticity.

Exactly, you can literally change your brain. My mom’s 65 and she’s started her business and like helping people and had a career change and like still wants to find love… Like there’s no age of these things.

Oh, I love that so much. Oh, my gosh. Amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, this has just been wonderful. Thank you so much. I’m so glad we got to connect.

Thank you so much for having me on. I love the whole vibe of the podcast and what you’ve been doing for the last six years, so thanks so much for having me on.

Yeah, and so where can people find you? So it’s Hearts Happiness. I know you have a podcast and what is your Instagram and website?

So my Instagram is @hearts__happiness, like two underscores in the middle.

Right.

And then my site is http://www.heartshappiness.co.uk and my podcast is called Hearts Happiness as well, and you can find that on my podcast providers too. So yeah, if you want to learn how to do the things I’ve been talking about, just listen to the podcast from the beginning. It’d be really helpful.

Yeah. Amazing. Okay, well, thank you so much and I’ll be in touch soon.